Insight.1 Self-analysis is important for "the future" and "comparison."

Q. Do you think self-analysis is important? Are there any tips for it?

Watanabe: That's a great question to start with (laughs). I'll say this upfront, I'm not a fan of the term "self-analysis". (smirks)

Koga: I also don’t use the term "self-analysis". I always say "self-exploration" and tell students to "go treasure hunting." Especially now, many university students haven't been able to do much during the pandemic, so I hope they explore not just the last two or three years, but also their deeper past.

Watanabe: You’re such a good person (laughs). By the way, do you have any advice for when you say "do some self-exploration"?

Koga: For instance, when uncovering and exploring one's "strengths", they should articulate what they’ve managed to do throughout middle school, high school, and university. When lined up, there’s something common among them, so I encourage verbalizing that and injecting thought assistance. Even if you say, "a person who loves baseball", there can be many nuances like "someone who enjoys the thrill of the ball flying," "someone who enjoys teamwork," or "someone who enjoys strategic battles"...I want them to cherish each of those self-discoveries.

Watanabe: I see... I want to delve a bit deeper; what would be considered a success for a student exploring themselves?

Koga: Perhaps it’s when they can feel that points connect to make a line. Like, “I’m interested in advertising because of XX,” or “I love Zealth because of YY.” In the end, their deepest desires become connected with what they’ve verbalized about themselves (their past). Students who reach this feeling are incredibly appealing.

Watanabe: I see, I see. If that’s the understanding, I might agree with you.

Personally, I think the way to face the past is less important than the way to envision the future. I believe it’s crucial to start from the foreground, not the background. Especially in startups, this sense of the future is extremely important.

Also, I feel there are students who often fall into the "trap of self-analysis." Since "self-analysis" primarily focuses on the past, they verbalize various things but often get lost asking, "What was the outcome again?" I think it’s a waste to poorly engage in self-development during job hunting.

Koga: It’s indeed not good if you only dwell on the past and don’t come back.

Watanabe: Exactly. Also, returning to work-related talk, I believe the basics of "analysis" are "hypothesis" and "comparison." Instead of jumping straight into analysis, it’s better to lay down a hypothesis like "Surely it’s like this?" and then start the necessary analysis from there. I think this corresponds to what I said earlier about "designing the foreground" in self-analysis. It might even be called a vision.

And then comparison. By comparing and focusing on the differences, we can think about measures. I believe this is fundamental in business and marketing.

How do we position ourselves after comparing with various things? How do we add our color? How do we differentiate ourselves? I think it’s crucial. Many "self-analysis books" convey a notion of "you don't have to compare, just be yourself", but at least in the entry point of business, job hunting is predominantly a "relative competition." Therefore, we shouldn’t run away from "comparison" and should engage in realistic analysis.

Insight.2 Approaching with a natural self = prepare to speak in your own words.

Q. Should interviews be conducted "naturally", or should one "dress up" for them?

Koga: Since I hope you’ll succeed after joining the company, I want you to approach interviews naturally. It’s unfortunate if you mask your essence with excessive makeup; I would be so pleased if you could share your thoughts in your own words.

Watanabe: I have a bit of a counter-argument here. During a one-hour interview, do you think someone who comes "naturally" or someone who comes "ready to do well in this interview!" is better?

Koga: Hmm, that’s a tough question.

Watanabe: I keep repeating, but I believe job hunting is the entry point to business. And business is a world of selection. That’s why, especially at the decisive moment—during interviews—coming prepared to compete is a must for me; hence, I evaluate the latter positively.

People generally do not have a bad image of those who try hard. There’s a psychological term called "reciprocity of goodwill"; I believe that "trying your best" also has a reciprocity to it. When a student passionately shares their experiences, the interviewer becomes enthusiastic as well. They become serious about the conversation. Therefore, I think it’s a shame to go in purely as a natural self, and as I’ll mention later, it’s not too late to be natural after you receive a job offer.

Koga: In that sense, it seems there’s a bit of a difference in how Daisuke perceives "natural self" compared to my understanding. For me, "being natural" doesn’t mean being absent-minded; it means being thoroughly prepared by deeply considering the company and oneself before our meeting today, which translates to a state of relaxation.

Watanabe: I see. So it’s more like a freestyle, not scripted?

Koga: Exactly! It’s about not being in a stiff state where you think you have to adhere to specific questions; you should be in a flexible state, feeling like you can handle anything, and able to articulate even tricky questions in your own words.

Watanabe: If we interpret it that way, we’re almost saying the same thing. Natural self = being someone who has thought deeply about life and oneself regularly and carries confidence in that state. In reality, not every professional at interviews will be a “good person” or “excellent”, so it’s crucial to be adequately prepared without misunderstanding the meaning of "natural self."

Koga: In that sense, "self-exploration" is essential! (smirk)

Insight.3 What you have experienced is more important than what you have learned from those experiences.

Q. Do you have any advice for students who have just started job hunting?

Watanabe: I often say "let's update your profile." There's a common saying that "what matters in self-PR is not whether you've had amazing experiences, but what you've learned from them." I think that’s a tremendous lie. (laughs)

Clearly in the business world, what you've experienced is crucial, and based on that, what you've learned is also important. If someone is asked whether they would prefer to hire someone who has only done simple, repetitive tasks versus someone who has tackled a really challenging job, it would overwhelmingly be the latter.

Koga:

I get what you're saying, but what should those who have not had such remarkable experiences during the job hunting stage do?

Watanabe: Fortunately, I think the prolonged nature of job hunting brings both good and bad. I believe it’s perfectly fine to realize this fact and then go gain some experience. From participating in summer internships until the actual end of job hunting, there’s roughly half a year to a year, right? Between the resume you submit for the summer internship in your junior year and the one in June of your senior year, which one is more appealing—the one that has stayed the same or one that has clearly been upgraded? It’s obviously the latter.

In that sense, if you realize your experiences seem lacking compared to others, it’s not too late to start. You should aim to upgrade your profile. I believe that through such experiences, you would grow tremendously and those who can quickly update themselves can indeed enjoy a startup career.

Koga: Being able to think about one's career from the potential future CAN instead of being confined to the CAN of the present is wonderful.

Watanabe: Isn’t our company president exactly that?

Koga: Indeed. He challenges continuously, rapidly increasing his experience base, which is why he seems to be growing at an exceptional speed. Right now, he’s also advancing his challenges in America at high speed and gaining remarkable experiences.

Watanabe: Right! Additionally, he has a habit of verbalizing daily experiences in the form of journals. I think it’s something noteworthy; he has a habit of reflecting on experiences in real-time. If you’re coming to a startup, I definitely want you to develop a habit of verbalizing your daily experiences.

Koga: I completely agree. That habit doesn’t have to start when becoming a professional. I hope students take the time to verbalize their discoveries and the discomfort they feel as they progress through job hunting. This is also treasure hunting!

Insight.4 Escape from your current "herd = comfort zone."

Koga: Speaking of broadening experience, I often say "Don’t flock together." The thought "Since my friend next door is doing this, I’ll probably be fine" is really dangerous.

Watanabe: Is that the same as saying "get out of your comfort zone!"?

Koga: Exactly. Job hunting brings many new encounters, so I think it's essential to seek out and embrace opportunities that you’ve never encountered before and update your relationships.

Watanabe: It’s true. Although I might get scolded for saying this, I think it’s rare for university students to study rigorously or engage in internships, instead, many spend their time as if in a "university paradise." If they proceed with job hunting while remaining in the "comfort zone" where they've been comfortable thus far, it could turn out tough.

I too was part of a wave of student entrepreneurship in my second and third years of university, and although I hadn’t switched on before that, I joined communities where student entrepreneurs gathered and got involved in establishing an NPO that promotes presentations in Japan. I was able to meet exceptional peers and adults that I had never encountered before. While it was difficult and initially uncomfortable, I feel placing myself somewhere beyond my comfort zone was the best decision.

Koga: I believe anyone will grow while working. However, many struggle to recognize it. To find a slightly more developed version of oneself, it’s good to belong to a community where you can stretch yourself a little beyond your current state. During my own job hunt, I attended a business school for professionals and interacted with students I wouldn’t normally have befriended. I gained insight into values I had been unaware of and broadened my perspective.

Watanabe: It’s an overwhelming era where students can easily meet people "better than themselves" compared to our job-hunting days (a dozen years ago), so they should be more courageous in taking on challenges.

Koga: Conversely, I'm envious. I believe these are experiences that current students can have, so I hope they enthusiastically dive in.

Additionally, I've felt that the polarization of student activities has further advanced during the pandemic. Earlier, I mentioned students who have done nothing, but proactive students have taken advantage of opportunities that arose due to the pandemic, enjoying student life and continuously updating themselves. Rather than thinking, "I couldn't do X due to Y," they should shift their mindset to "I can still do X from now on" and take various challenges.

Insight.5 Confess your "doubts" after receiving a job offer.

Q. What do you think is the correct answer when asked, "What's your first choice?"

Koga: If it’s one of the companies you wish to join, I think it’s fine to say so (to say it’s your first choice).

Watanabe: I have a stance of "let’s think after we become the selectors." You wouldn’t hesitate about whether to choose A, B, or C when you haven’t received an acknowledgment, right? I think job hunting is a game where the balance of power changes before and after the action of "receiving a job offer," and I believe it's better to think calmly after having received the offer for a "better decision."

Until you receive a job offer, students are in a fundamentally disadvantaged position, so I don’t think one can make good decisions under that circumstance.

Koga: I understand. I think some companies won’t offer a job unless it’s to their first choice, but I personally feel you shouldn’t have to work at such companies (laughs). If a company isn’t treating students fairly, let’s reject them! (laughs)

Watanabe: Bold (laughs). Personally, I think some "dressing up" is acceptable, and in the business world, it’s probably expected. While mutual trust is crucial, it’s best to avoid rude behavior.

Conversely, I believe that right after starting your job search, it’s best to freely discuss your worries and engage in honest communication. First, shape your thoughts → during the stage of receiving offers, make sure to compete effectively → after receiving the offer, make a sound decision. I think this three-step process is fundamental.

Insight.6 Nonetheless, it’s advisable to gracefully decline offers.

Q. If “declining offers” will happen frequently, do you think it’s better to communicate that properly?

Watanabe: I’m aware of various views like “declining offers is not mandatory” or “the acceptance letter carries no legal obligation,” but personally, I appreciate when students talk properly after receiving an offer.

It may sound like an old story, but when I first became part of HR, I issued an offer to a student who accepted it for the first time, and after that, he was the first one to decline. This student usually had a bit of a loose vibe, but once engaged, he was incredibly creative and logical, showcasing high talent. However, I had never seen him in a suit during the interview (laughs). He didn’t have to wear one.

When this individual contacted me to decline the offer, he was the first to have worn a suit and tied a tie as he came in. He looked very serious and said he wanted to decline. It wasn’t that I expected him to wear a suit; I was delighted that he made the effort to express his sincerity, and while I felt sad about the decline, our relationship remains intact, and recently we even had an online meeting between Bangkok and Tokyo.

Koga:

Ultimately, isn’t En-chan (the COO of Zealth, Ryuta Endo) also a student who was initially offered and then declined?

Watanabe: Exactly (laughs). I expressed so much interest in him but was turned down. However, because he communicated well, our connection lasted, and that’s how I eventually came to Zealth.

On the contrary, those who parted ways badly tend to stay in my memory. I think there are various stresses, but it's better to do this properly.

Koga: I share the same thoughts. Even if we can't work at the same company at the time of graduation, I often feel that people with whom we share a connection will eventually meet again as we age.

I also encounter students who agonize and tear up over declining offers annually, but companies are also in a position to choose after interviewing many candidates, so in the end, I think students should also feel entitled to make choices. I sometimes think, "While I hope they act with sincerity, I also don’t want them to feel too guilty."

Insight.7 Be cautious of "set-in-stone HR" while also becoming allies with HR.

Q. Articles that state "interviews are decided in the first three seconds" or "people can be judged in three minutes" have been attracting interest. What are your thoughts on these claims?

Koga: I truly dislike those phrases. While I believe I have a relatively calm temperament, (laughs) I firmly disagree. If you’re a student, you’ve been alive for nearly 20 years; even if we concede three seconds or, at maximum, three minutes, I don’t think we can understand someone just like that.

Watanabe: I would generally also oppose this. However, I think it's essential to mention that whether you talk for an hour or two hours, you won't understand everything about someone. Thus, the value of three seconds, thirty minutes, or three hours is relative. Ultimately, everything can’t be known, and it's about how we find a common ground with each other during the job hunting process.

Do you have anything you pay attention to when attending an interview?

Koga: When going to an interview, I turn off my subjective switches and eliminate assumptions. I think it’s vital not to "make assumptions" based on first impressions or apparent communication skills.

Watanabe: Recruitment requires some form of judgment regarding acceptance or rejection; thus, it’s a labeling process, but labeling someone to the second is a strong assumption and a form of superiority.

Koga: Also, my policy is to take the interview until the time is almost exhausted. Since the time has been dedicated to me, it’s crucial to utilize the entire interview time effectively. After 18 years in a people-centered role, I’ve come to realize that people are deep beings, and their essence cannot be understood through first impressions. Moreover, I think it’s worthwhile to question myself to ensure I’m not mistakenly dropping candidates who match the company until the end.

Occasionally, I remember a student from Kyoto University’s architecture department I regretfully cut in my early days as an interviewer, due to incompetence. (laughs)

Watanabe: Sometimes, I finish interviews quickly too (laughs). Even then, I try to use the time to provide feedback that can help candidates in their next steps.

Back in our job-hunting days, there were interviews like, five interviewers for ten students; it really made one wonder, "What can be learned from this?" (laughs)

Koga: Yes, that definitely happened! (laughs) Reflecting on it as an HR person now, I wonder what that even meant...

I’d also caution against HR personnel who tend to entirely dismiss everything. Some HR people believe that by obliterating all aspects, it will lead to better self-analysis. Therefore, if someone is excessively pushy, I recommend maintaining some distance.

Watanabe: On the flip side, if you come across HR personnel who seem trustworthy, it’s a good idea to proactively connect with them. Even with different backgrounds, as they are often ‘seniors’ in society, many will be sincerely willing to help.

Koga: Exactly. While I’ve said a lot without discussing Zealth much, please let me add this at the end. (laughs) I feel that Zealth employees genuinely engage with each student. After interviews, they take meticulous notes and are incredibly supportive. I often feel moved by how much effort they put in. A company where each employee sincerely dedicates themselves to job seekers is definitely recommended.

Appendix: Put an end to "academic background focus" and "experience focus."

Q. The debate about "experience vs. academic background" has been getting attention lately. What are your thoughts on "academic background"?

Watanabe: This is a really silly debate. "Academic background" is also a significant "experience," so thinking of them as separate is incorrect. If asked whether a higher or lower academic background is preferable, it’s obvious that a higher one is better. However, it’s also essential to emphasize that we shouldn’t judge solely based on academic background.

Koga: I don't believe that "academic background doesn’t matter" either. Academic background is an important factor that reflects effort toward goals within the academic theme.

However, like Daisuke, I don’t look solely at academic background. I make it a point in interviews to ask all candidates why they chose their university or school to understand their background, values, and effort. (You just figured out my question’s intention, didn’t you? *laughs*)

Watanabe: I think Japan has a tendency to) "dislike academic background too much." People often speak of things like "academic filters" as "evil," but they never complain about filters like "English-speaking ability" or "being a representative of Japan" or "experience studying abroad." It’s bizarre how academic background is overwhelmingly disliked, isn’t it? (laughs)

I believe "academic background" is the fairest measure. Opportunities for university entrance are available to anyone provided they put in some effort, regardless of financial ability, unlike experience that requires money. Our company’s representatives and CTO have high school diplomas, but honestly, unless one can demonstrate exceptional levels of effort and talent, acquiring a high academic background seems advisable.

Koga: At Zealth, as we're strengthening global recruitment, I have more opportunities to converse with students from overseas universities, and evidently, their interest in academic background is noticeably higher than in Japan. They go through financial and environmental challenges to pursue their education and study abroad. I’ve been genuinely touched by witnessing such efforts as they strive onward without making excuses about their current situations.

Watanabe: While I’ve mentioned various points, I believe it’s essential to reiterate that Zealth does not decide simply based on academic history. (laughs)

In conclusion
Thank you for reading this dialogue, which extends over 10,000 words.
I hope the "Seven Insights for Startup Job Hunting" are helpful to job seekers.

※ The statements made in this article reflect personal opinions and do not represent official views of the organizations to which the authors belong.